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2004 v6 and trans into 97 full swap

Discussion in '1994-2004 V6 Mustang Tech' started by Sauceja, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    i have a 97 v6 vert that I got with another 95 coupe and have fixed the vert with all the parts.

    I have since acquired an 04 mustang that has a good motor and 5 sp trans. Since the wife wants a 5 sp.

    I'm in all 3 of these cars for well under $1000 as I sold parts of and used the 95 brakes and a bunch of other stuff for my 85 gt vert.

    To start. I have been doing a bunch of research and at this point have some questions and more so to confirm what I believe to be the answer.
    I have swapped many vehicles from auto to 5 sp so I'm not to worried about that.

    I want to drop the entire drivetrain from the 04 into the 97.
    Things I know I need to address is the fuel rail.

    After reading some stuff on here I intend to swap pcm as well and keep everything working.

    As I see it I need to convert the dash harness motor harness and trans harness to make it work due to coolant sensors and butterflies and the 104 pin harness.

    Is this the best route to achieve my goals? I'm not a stranger to wiring or electronics.

    I have the complete 04 to use as it is complete minus radiator support.

    I hope this makes sense and would like to possibly open some conversations about this to weigh some options from the more experienced.
    I am located near Ft Worth TX.
    Thanks
     
  2. James Carr

    James Carr sleep-er noun = fusing speed with secrecy

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    your going to also address the fuel system but other than that I don't see much you missed does the 04 have ABS?
     
  3. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    First off, the split port 04 motor uses larger fuel injectors and different fuel rail, thus, a tune change will be required. Second, would keep the 97 PCM and wiring harness and switch all 97 motor sensors on to the 04 motor. If the 97 was an automatic, the tune change is quite simple by throwing two system switches to convert the tune to a 5 speed.

    Next, your 97 fuel rail will have to be switched out due to the location of the fuel injectors on the splitport 04 heads. Go look for an 03 F-150 V-6 fuel rail for the simplest switch from the 04 returnless fuel system to the 97 return style fuel system. This will require several fuel hose connection conversions.

    Hopefully, with the 04 motor/trans, you will get the complete unit with intakes, MAF, air box, filter, water pump, PS unit, AC compressor, starter, etc. Not sure, but on the 04 transmission, suggest you keep and use the 04 yoke as not sure about the crossover to the 97 driveshaft.
     
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  4. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    I am going to look into the f150 fuel rail. I may buy the high psi fuel hoses and morph the 2 .

    I have a complete running 04 and outside of the rad support being toast is in great shape.

    I know a tune will be needed at some point. Figure I can get out of a tune and wire extending by just swapping the 04 ecu. Neither car has fenders currently and I'm moving the 04 A/C system over as well so I have to remove the heater core box regardless. So moving over dash and ecu harnesses will be easy at that point.

    Honestly I would rather pull the dash than to part and extend wires to convert to 97.
    Would like to keep as is and swap entire motor and trans over from the 04.

    I've read a lot of your responses to the split port swap 6 shooter and your 04 ecu swap.

    04 does not have abs.

    In the meantime I will also be pulling the 3.73 gears and Trac loc out of my 85 7.5 rear and putting it in the 04 rear 7.5 and using that in the 97 as well to get the added length.

    So basically motor trans driveshaft and rear end of the 04 is getting swapped into the 97 .

    I would convert wiring from headlights to tails but one is coupe and one is vert .
     
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  5. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Do I need a photo hoster to post pics here or can I do it straight from phone?

    13 or 14 years ago I helped pioneer the H2B swap in the honda world and have built some crazy Frankenstein motors.

    I just dont want to do a bunch of work that is not necessary and keep the car as stock as possible. I've even considered swapping fuel tank and making the 97 returnless fuel.

    Which may be needed to keep use the 04 ecu.
     
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  6. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    0601181816a.jpg
    0601181816b.jpg
    0601181817.jpg
    0601181817a.jpg

    These are the 04

    0601181818.jpg
    0601181819.jpg

    These are the 97


    I have a 95 all black dash that I will use if I dash swap. Will incorporate the double din if possible but not a deal breaker .
     
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  7. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Switching fuel tanks would be a good option and you will also need a Fuel pump driver module. As for the 2004 PCM switch-in, I may be the only one who has upgraded the PCM successfully. If you bring over all of the entire 04 wiring harnesses, no problem. However, If you keep the 97 PCM harness, suggest you go to ford and get the 104 pin wiring harness schematic. I have a spreadsheet of the side by side wires of the 104 pin harness between the 2000 Mustang and the 2004. Had to cut several wires and add in a CHT sensor and circuit to the harness to keep the 2004 PCM happy. you will need to do this with the 97 wiring schematic and compare to the 2004. There will be a few differences that will need to be cut, switched to new location, or add in a new circuit.

    Will say that pulling the dash is a significant project. Did mine 2+ years ago to replace and upgrade the interior. Mine was more complex in that I have added 8 extra gauges and kept the stock 6 in the console.
     
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  8. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Does the 04 pcm control the fuel pump on the returnless style or is it strictly a pump driver?

    If its a secondary driver than that would make using the 04 pcm easier as it wouldn't be trying to control the fuel pump.

    While pulling a dash may seem like a huge project for many. I've pulled more than I care to. And will be putting a sn95 dash in my 85 eventually.
    And I learned a few things pulling then when I parted out a 95 coupe.

    I will most likely be going tuner route regardless just to eliminate egr and pats.

    I wouldn't need go cut and add wires if I swap over all harnesses from dash and engine compartment though would I?
    All body harnesses for Windows top and rear end all go through fuse box .

    This is just going to be a car for my son to drive and for me to mess with while restoring my 85. So I am looking for an easy way to swap it but want to keep the secondary intake ports and such.
    Plus the transmission is going to have different sensors than 97 from what I'm finding.

    Don't mind the work .Just want to have as many apples in the bag before I start swapping. As of right now both vehicles run and drive would like to have my game plan together before they won't during the swap.
     
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  9. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    The 04 PCM does control the fuel pump via the fuel pump driver module. There are pump value files, a voltage table with rail pressure on the Y axis and fuel pump flows on the Y axis, a table that switches rail pressure based on RPM/air flows, and another table that switches from closed loop to open loop.

    Eliminating the egr and pats is just a throw of several system switches. However, if you go with the 2004 Speedo gauge cluster, you may experience some annoying "threats" light intermittent flashing. So, would suggest you go with the 04 cluster, the 04 steering column, and the 04 pcm as a group and leave the pats on.

    Think you will find that the overall harness is in sections; some under the dash, some through the firewall, and some along the firewall. The 104-pin pcm harness goes through the firewall. For the 04 PCM, had to add a wire to the harness at a specific pin location which is really quite simple. I know the pins and positions.

    BTW, this is a pretty cool project, so post lots of photos of the switch over, the problems encountered, and the work arounds/solutions. You will be happy in the future to refer back to the photos and writeups to solve other issues that may eventually surface.
     
  10. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Waiting on pictures for confirmation of the correct E150 fuel rail and injectors before I purchase them.

    Also found a dual exhaust with factory chatted H pipe and catback with mufflers from I believe a 98 gt. That should be a good add on to this motor.

    I fear I am going to have to do some things differently. It may end up being just a split port swap using my 97 wiring and ecu. Without much solid data on what is exactly needed it will be more slip stream to keep the cluster and such I already have.
    I'm hesitant to cut up my lower intake manifold though and may try to swap it for a 99-00 version.


    Currently putting the rear end back together on the 85. Changed axle bushings and adding SVE upper and lower control arms. Will be running FRPP G springs for about a 1.5" drop.
     
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  11. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Is this the rail I need?
    Says its 99-03 e150

    Screenshot_2018-06-04-11-04-19.png
    Screenshot_2018-06-04-11-04-05.png
     
  12. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    image.jpeg Cat back I got yesterday for this swap. Will have to cut the first two cats off as I'm going to reuse some pace setter long tubes one of the cars I stripped and parted came with.
     
  13. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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  14. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Fuel rail photo is downside up and back to front. Flip it over and the fuel entry and exits will be on the front passenger side.

    BTW, which photo URL host are you using? My photobucket company went to the dark side.
     
  15. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Right. This is the photo they sent me .

    Its around $80 shipped and includes injectors. Seems a tad high but I work away from home and I don't mind spending a little extra not having to go parts surfing myself .

    I just used the upload photo on here.
    My photobucket account has been lagged for many years but I have a ton of info with pics in a Honda forum when we were pioneering the H2B swaps 10 or so years ago. So I leave it alone as to not lose info.
     
  16. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Got a chance to paint it before heading back to work.
    Will be pulling both motors when I get back home for days off. 0604181708.jpg 0604181708a.jpg
     
  17. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Got the ecu and fender harnesses out.
    AC blows cold as can be also. Will be swapping that into the 97 as well.
    I will be pulling dash out of the 04. And at this time I'm undecided if I'm swapping everything over to 97 or just using the 97 wiring yet.

    I was able to get am E150 fuel rail so fuel is covered .
    0620181638.jpg
    0620181241.jpg
     
  18. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Got this done last night but been a busy day.
    0620182110.jpg
    Surprisingly and relieving the inside looks real good.
    0621181112.jpg
    0621181112a.jpg

    Sadly the clutch and flywheel are toast but I figured that was gonna be that way .
    0621181408.jpg



    We'll i have figured out how ill delete egr

    I'm gonna tap these and thread lock some 1/8 set screws in here. I'll still make a block off plate but it won't be necessary. In the event I add booat later I want these blocked off also.
    0622180105.jpg




    For the butterfly delete I'm just gonna cut the rods and jb weld them in place so not to disrupt airflow but also so don't have to use a lot of jb weld and they are just under a press fit anyways.
    Will add in well on inner thinner piece of rod so won't have to worry about a chunk falling off.
    0622180105a.jpg
     

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  19. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    If I revisit this I can see how a port and polish on the bigger runner of the head would be beneficial. Run a rough port the last 3/4" and run a rough port on injector side of head .
    Port and polish both intake manifolds and this thing could move some air .

    Bigger valves and a nice cam could move some air.
    This would also be a good motor for boost .

    If I can find a 4.2 dirt cheap it might be worth a full build with a 10:1 ratio and mild boost .

    Replaced rear main seal while here and going to run felpro valve and intake gaskets. I won't be spending much into this motor. Buying a clutch and calling it good.

    Need to revisit some threads to see what sensor I need to tap and add to intake manifold.
    I removed butterflies due to one of the rods being broke at the plastic clip by the motor.

    That's all for now. Will be pulling motor out of 97 hopefully tomorrow but going to look at an 86 lx vert that's been stripped down some and guy also has a $2500 maximum motorsports suspension package he's selling for well under half off.
    Might be a way to upgrade my 85 some and sell off the rest to make some money.
     
  20. Sauceja

    Sauceja Member

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    Well semi productive day.
    Got my pedals and cables for 5 sp swap
    0622181716.jpg
    Found the v band clamps and flex pipe I'm gonna use to tie in my long tube headers to the gt H pipe + cat back exhaust.
    Painted valve covers last night in wrinkle black
    0622181551b.jpg
    0622181551a.jpg
    Starting to drain fluids and pull other motor.

    Anyone need parts?
    0622181707.jpg 0622181708.jpg

    I do believe I am going to swap the heater core box over to the 97 and use the black dash I have from a 95. I like the heater hose hookups.
    The double din is broke in the 04 dash otherwise I would swap that in .