BRN2RUN
Active Member
Well, I obviously have a bit more money than brains.
I decided to buy a set of remanufactured 3.8 heads (new valve seals, valve guides, crack/ pressure tested, valves re-done, milled surface, etc) and work on another ported head design. I could have just taken some off a car at the wreckers, but I wanted a fresh, clean slate to work with that may not potentially have valve seat pitting and worn valve guides and seals, or whatnot.
I decided against the SC engine swap, and ruled out the Mark VIII swap. In the case of the SC swap, I don't think that I want the threat of two cars being under the threat of head gasket failures (even with MLS gasket upgrades and ARP bolts). Plus, although there's a good presence, online, for used parts, the fact remains that (aside from the oil filter, coil pack or accessory belt), it's a bitch to find parts in an emergency, ie: walking up to the auto parts counter and buying something. PCV valve is SC specific, too, etc. Even at the parts store, everything is a couple of days away, unless something is air freighted in. My worry is that--as the Stang is a winter driven car and literally is a year round driver (and the SC is stored in the winter, meaning that in the winter, I don't have the luxury of just stepping in the other car in case of repairs)--that I need something as common as possible, and everything that I've needed for the Mustang has been available at the parts counter, immediately. And there's always usually two or three base 3.8 Mustangs at the wreckers at any given time. Finding an SC is near impossible to find.
The Mark VIII's, after the intake/ tune/ bolt ons just don't make as much power as they should. Some major cam/ head work needs to be done to get it to be on par with the Cobra engine. Thought of dropping a Coyote engine in the car, but the engine would be worth way more than the car, itself, and if the car got written off, the engine's value would go way down (it's tough haggling with the insurance company). A GT engine swap would be cool, too, but really, compared to the modern engines, they're pretty slow, too, in an automatic car. GT's of this era usually don't go for very much more than the 3.8's here (depending on vert vs coupe, mileage, colour of the car, etc), which would be a good deal if one were to buy one, but at this point, an engine swap would cost more than the car would end up being worth, especially as the miles pile up on a daily driver car. Even though my engine is at 205,000 kms, it makes more sense just to drive it until the engine gives out and then figure out what to do at that point. A 16 year old car is still a 16 year old car, even if it has a lower mileage engine dropped in it.
So that leaves me with the original factory 3.8, and I dunno......I just think that there's something cool about having a numbers matching car, and working with the deficiencies of that era's designs (like someone maintaining a carbed setup, instead of moving to an EFI system). I think that there's something cool about the split port engine, even if it doesn't make that much power.
In my previous head design (http://www.v6mustang.com/threads/my-current-build-head-work-etc.278414/), it is true about what they say--they end up being practice heads.
While almost all of the things that I did, I would continue to stand by, there's a few things that I will now do differently, to improve power and reliability:
1. valve guides: I think that I ground them down too much. In a race car only application, I think that this would be fine (and would undoubtedly flow more CFM), the weakened support would likely be a detriment at higher valve lifts on a custom camshaft. Maybe not. But on a daily driver car, I'm doing things for reliability, instead of all out power. In the next design, I will taper them down from the valves, which should improve flow, but still retain the strength of the stock valve guides
2. too much material removed from combustion chamber: I don't think it's a huge issue, as static compression really isn't worth tons of power, but I think that there's a tad too much removed, and the sides of the combustion chamber had too much material removed in that it's too close to the gasket edge. The spark plug boss would end up being less shrouded, but I'm now worried if too much material may have been removed and would weaken that area. I will now just smooth out some rough casting spots, and any sharp edges.
3. too much material removed from intake bowl: seeing as that they were ported and polished when I bought them (likely a DIY home job) that were done pretty well, whoever had done them had filed down a lot of the first valve seat angle that transitions from the bowl to the valve seat area. I think that this would slow down velocity at low to mid lift quite a bit on a stock or mild cam, and might make up for it at higher lifts, but that's also not where these engines spend the bulk of their time at
4. re-evaluate exhaust port: it's a small valve/ port, which builds up lots of low end torque, but I'm going to go over some exhaust port designs in other types of engines with smaller ports/ valves, to see what works for them. Headers/ shorties don't improve power much, likely because of the small size of the exhaust port/ valve, but if some additional CFM can be gained without hogging things out too much, and keeping up velocity (but at some higher RPM's and maybe helping to contribute to a higher torque peak and a more gradual torque peak), that would be great. I don't want to lose too much torque, but I'd like something that isn't too peak-y, either, because the weak 2nd gear ratio in the 4R70W just feels so much slower when it's out of the torque powerband when it shifts from 1st to 2nd and drops to 4000 rpm in my car, and not having that gear multiplication mask the engine's lack of breathing at those RPM's. Even 4.10's still feel slow when it hits 2nd gear, but in the lighter car with heavy wheels (56 lbs apiece--112 lbs total rotational weight versus about 80-83 lbs in stock 15" wheel form with 205/60/15's) versus the SC (with 3.27's and an AOD), at cruise speeds (when the SC isn't in boost, or is at low boost at 1-3 psi), the Mustang feels much quicker on the butt dyno, and the throttle is way touchier than the SC.
5. lapping the valves: buying a set of reconditioned heads seems to make more sense, since lapping the valves (according to some experts) doesn't provide the longevity that re-doing/ replacing the valve seats will. Again, out of longevity concerns, this seems to make more sense.
I decided against the SC engine swap, and ruled out the Mark VIII swap. In the case of the SC swap, I don't think that I want the threat of two cars being under the threat of head gasket failures (even with MLS gasket upgrades and ARP bolts). Plus, although there's a good presence, online, for used parts, the fact remains that (aside from the oil filter, coil pack or accessory belt), it's a bitch to find parts in an emergency, ie: walking up to the auto parts counter and buying something. PCV valve is SC specific, too, etc. Even at the parts store, everything is a couple of days away, unless something is air freighted in. My worry is that--as the Stang is a winter driven car and literally is a year round driver (and the SC is stored in the winter, meaning that in the winter, I don't have the luxury of just stepping in the other car in case of repairs)--that I need something as common as possible, and everything that I've needed for the Mustang has been available at the parts counter, immediately. And there's always usually two or three base 3.8 Mustangs at the wreckers at any given time. Finding an SC is near impossible to find.
The Mark VIII's, after the intake/ tune/ bolt ons just don't make as much power as they should. Some major cam/ head work needs to be done to get it to be on par with the Cobra engine. Thought of dropping a Coyote engine in the car, but the engine would be worth way more than the car, itself, and if the car got written off, the engine's value would go way down (it's tough haggling with the insurance company). A GT engine swap would be cool, too, but really, compared to the modern engines, they're pretty slow, too, in an automatic car. GT's of this era usually don't go for very much more than the 3.8's here (depending on vert vs coupe, mileage, colour of the car, etc), which would be a good deal if one were to buy one, but at this point, an engine swap would cost more than the car would end up being worth, especially as the miles pile up on a daily driver car. Even though my engine is at 205,000 kms, it makes more sense just to drive it until the engine gives out and then figure out what to do at that point. A 16 year old car is still a 16 year old car, even if it has a lower mileage engine dropped in it.
So that leaves me with the original factory 3.8, and I dunno......I just think that there's something cool about having a numbers matching car, and working with the deficiencies of that era's designs (like someone maintaining a carbed setup, instead of moving to an EFI system). I think that there's something cool about the split port engine, even if it doesn't make that much power.
In my previous head design (http://www.v6mustang.com/threads/my-current-build-head-work-etc.278414/), it is true about what they say--they end up being practice heads.
1. valve guides: I think that I ground them down too much. In a race car only application, I think that this would be fine (and would undoubtedly flow more CFM), the weakened support would likely be a detriment at higher valve lifts on a custom camshaft. Maybe not. But on a daily driver car, I'm doing things for reliability, instead of all out power. In the next design, I will taper them down from the valves, which should improve flow, but still retain the strength of the stock valve guides
2. too much material removed from combustion chamber: I don't think it's a huge issue, as static compression really isn't worth tons of power, but I think that there's a tad too much removed, and the sides of the combustion chamber had too much material removed in that it's too close to the gasket edge. The spark plug boss would end up being less shrouded, but I'm now worried if too much material may have been removed and would weaken that area. I will now just smooth out some rough casting spots, and any sharp edges.
3. too much material removed from intake bowl: seeing as that they were ported and polished when I bought them (likely a DIY home job) that were done pretty well, whoever had done them had filed down a lot of the first valve seat angle that transitions from the bowl to the valve seat area. I think that this would slow down velocity at low to mid lift quite a bit on a stock or mild cam, and might make up for it at higher lifts, but that's also not where these engines spend the bulk of their time at
4. re-evaluate exhaust port: it's a small valve/ port, which builds up lots of low end torque, but I'm going to go over some exhaust port designs in other types of engines with smaller ports/ valves, to see what works for them. Headers/ shorties don't improve power much, likely because of the small size of the exhaust port/ valve, but if some additional CFM can be gained without hogging things out too much, and keeping up velocity (but at some higher RPM's and maybe helping to contribute to a higher torque peak and a more gradual torque peak), that would be great. I don't want to lose too much torque, but I'd like something that isn't too peak-y, either, because the weak 2nd gear ratio in the 4R70W just feels so much slower when it's out of the torque powerband when it shifts from 1st to 2nd and drops to 4000 rpm in my car, and not having that gear multiplication mask the engine's lack of breathing at those RPM's. Even 4.10's still feel slow when it hits 2nd gear, but in the lighter car with heavy wheels (56 lbs apiece--112 lbs total rotational weight versus about 80-83 lbs in stock 15" wheel form with 205/60/15's) versus the SC (with 3.27's and an AOD), at cruise speeds (when the SC isn't in boost, or is at low boost at 1-3 psi), the Mustang feels much quicker on the butt dyno, and the throttle is way touchier than the SC.
5. lapping the valves: buying a set of reconditioned heads seems to make more sense, since lapping the valves (according to some experts) doesn't provide the longevity that re-doing/ replacing the valve seats will. Again, out of longevity concerns, this seems to make more sense.
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