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Engine management, help me before its too late

Discussion in '1994-2004 V6 Mustang Tech' started by dave2000, Feb 10, 2017.

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  1. dave2000

    dave2000 Member

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    hey guys, I've been working on my first turbo build for a couple months now, trying to work out the bigger details and get parts together while on a budget. any way i had planned on using sct even bought an x4 and to be honest i didn't realize that i wouldn't be able to adjust custom tunes myself and now i'm doing the math in my head and getting kinda gun shy about shelling out ~300 every time i need the car tuned. this lead me to look into using mega squirt as a piggy back some. i saw some posts on the forums about it but reviews are pretty mixed. anyone out there using ms now? anyone for it, anyone against it?
     
  2. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Have you bought a maf or injectors yet? Is the engine built or cammed? Auto or manual?
     
  3. dave2000

    dave2000 Member

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    I haven't bought injectors or a maf yet, engine is stock right now. Manual as well. I was headed for a mild build to start with but i have an extra 3.8 that i was gonna build for more boost.
     
  4. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    The advantage for SCT is that a number of guys on this forum use it to tune their own cars plus a little help from dyno tuning. Probably 90% of the tuning can be done in the driveway and some on the streets/highways. It takes some time and patients to eliminate annoying drivability issues that most tuners cannot fix or you do not have enough $$ to pay them go get the little things to go away.
     
  5. dave2000

    dave2000 Member

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    That does make sense, your saying I would have more support with the sct. My fear is spending all that money every single time I need it tuned or tweaked. Do you think it would make sense to buy the advantage III software? I feel like in the long run I'll save money if i buy it and learn more about tuning.
     
  6. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Yes the is more support for this platform with pro racer. Mega squirt is map based is why I asked the question. If you had bought the maf already Ms would not be an option for me. There is also binary editor as an option. My buddy Tom shine is using this to tube his Turbo 4.3. he switched from pro racer to this. I would join the FB v6 group to get more details and find dealers.
     
  7. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Quarter horse with binary editor to me seems the better way to go as you can tune on the fly. Much easier than having to load tunes and what not.
     
  8. dave2000

    dave2000 Member

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    I will say that i do like how megasquirt uses a map sensor. From what I've read people say they meter better that mafs. I could see why especially in the case of a turbocharged engine.
     
  9. pixapusho

    pixapusho Member

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    Been doing some studying here as well... the biggest problem is we have a returnless fuel system. Megasquirt will require you to convert to a return-style fuel system. You can pull this from a GT, swap tank, pump, all fuel lines. I'm unsure about rail specifics. With a 5 speed it is feasible since the ECU controls so much for an autotragic transmission. I did see a post of an MS2 piggybacked for injector control into the stock ECU harness. You could stand alone a MS system but then you will need to deal with odometer, gauges, PATS. I'm still reading about this as I have always wanted to do a MS setup since I saw a 4G63T in a '90s BMW running standalone megasquirt. How's your build coming along? :)
     
  10. douglass

    douglass Active Member

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    As 6shooter stated you can buy the tuning software from SCT. You can buy the software for 350.00. You should be able to get dealer support, and you will have access to SCT's tuning forum, that might be helpful too. I use the SCT advantage III software, and love having it. When I purchased my software I bought it from Don Lasota SCT Pro Racer Packages PRP. He is very helpful, I think he provides you a starter tune, and will give you support while you data log. I own 2 of the X4s, and they are very nice units. Make sure you purchase a nice wideband O2 kit.

    I just purchased this one-http://www.plxdevices.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=897346002719

    You have the ability to plug the wideband signal into a 3rd party logging software (like SCT), and it puts out a narrow band signal. The narrow band signal allows you to eliminate the one of the factory O2 sensors, and sends a signal to the computer, and the Gauge. Or you just add an O2 bung, and just install it that way. I always like having more options.

    SCT Advantage III software - SCT Pro Racer Packages PRP
    Lasota offers a tuning guide - SCT EFI Tuning Guide
    Losota Tuning CD - LaSota Racing Training Video; EFI Tuning Guide - is a basic walk though of the software.
    Gregg Banish Tuning Guide - Engine Management: Advanced Tuning: Greg Banish: 9781932494426: Amazon.com: Books
    Gregg Banish High performance fuel injection system - Designing and Tuning High-Performance Fuel Injection Systems: Greg Banish: 9781932494907: Amazon.com: Books (I believe this is focused more on the MAP system)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  11. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Switching to a return style fuel system could cost up to $1500 and may/will require serious fuel rail modifications, exchanging the fuel hat on top of the fuel tank, plus adding a return fuel line back to the fuel tank hat.

    For most applications, the returnless fuel system is quite adequate, but the stock Ford data in the stock Ford tune is quite poor in my opinion. This is particularly true if one has changed out the stock fuel pump for an upgrade to flow more fuel. Can provide the tune changes, but the returnless fuel pump voltage table would likely have to be adjusted a little bit depending upon the flow of the pump. The tune changes will keep the pressure across injectors at 40 plus or minus 2. With Fords numbers, the numbers are 40 plus 20 or minus 10 which plays havoc with the A/F ratios and engine timing.

    In either case, both require tune changes.
     
  12. Phil II

    Phil II Cone Destroyer Staff Member

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    Stating MAP > MAF is a misleading or foolish claim. MAP is a less precise, more foregiving method. MAF is the more exact, more demanding method. How many oem vehicles use MAP right now?
     
  13. douglass

    douglass Active Member

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    From what I have read about tuning a MAP system vs experiencing tuning a MAF system, I would hands down prefer tuning with a MAF.
     
  14. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    The only reason I see a reason to switch to map based ecu is if you max an hpx in 3" tube. To get there it takes a healthy 4.3l stroker, a 67mm turbo, and around 25-30psi.