Welcome To V6Mustang.com!

We are the oldest and largest V6 Mustang forum on the internet. If you have any questions about your V6 Mustang or just want to connect with other V6 Mustang owners around the world, you have found the best place on the internet to do that.

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon!

Intercooled M112 experiment

Discussion in '1994-2004 V6 Mustang Tech' started by davidcseifert, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. davidcseifert

    davidcseifert that V6 guy

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    White Hall, AR
    Pretty much, plate is not a full inch taller than the non-intercooled plate, the intercooler is a little wider to help make up for the lost depth.

    Just a ported stock TB and the accufab because it's cheap, paid less than $100 for both lol


    Not using iac port on plenum so just had him fill the holes in, gonna run remote iac out of the old egr port on blower since that's useless.
    image.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2013
  2. Phil II

    Phil II Cone Destroyer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Columbia, South Carolina
    Sounds good. The thermal power of the heat exchangers can be upped by flowing more water, such as two of the standard intercooler pumps in parallel, or one big one.
     
  3. davidcseifert

    davidcseifert that V6 guy

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    White Hall, AR
    yeah was debating on maybe doing a small upgrade, don't want it to flow too fast or it won't cool down in the heat exchanger enough, not sure how big a tank i'll be running but this is the exchanger

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAR-PLATE-F...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d38e6052c&vxp=mtr

    and the pump i was thinking of

    http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchan...Code=CXR&Product_Code=WP-50-04&Category_Code=

    anyone see a cheap 1-2 gallon tank with a big mouth opening let me know (plan on mounting like the cobras do up front of the car)
     
  4. Phil II

    Phil II Cone Destroyer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Columbia, South Carolina
    That's really a misconception. in algebraic terms: thermal power= mass flow rate times the specific heat capacity of the fluid times the difference in temperature.
    mass flow rate is proportional to the fluid velocity and cross section area of the tubing/piping.

    Running a higher flow rate will raise the thermal power of the intercooling system, meaning it will be a able to remove more heat, not less. Similarly having a larger radiator area for the heat sink will raise thermal power.

    Lethal Performance is really expensive, but they have what you're looking for:
    http://www.lethalperformance.com/03-04-svt-cobra/cooling
     
  5. spaseghost

    spaseghost lamesauce

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    grand junction, co
    So, is this project still going or what? I've been holding out on a plate since November, I needs boost!
     
  6. davidcseifert

    davidcseifert that V6 guy

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    White Hall, AR
    Yeah I passed it onto a friend to finish, I picked up another project for myself.
     
  7. Phil II

    Phil II Cone Destroyer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Columbia, South Carolina
    I'm still interested to see the end results. Could you share the project's continued progress with us?
    What's your new project?
     
  8. Markstang

    Markstang Polishing my banhammer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    58
    he's putting an m90 on his splitport via a special adapter.
     
  9. 2000stanguy

    2000stanguy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    What is better about the m90 that you would want to do that? Doesn't the m112 move more liters of air?
     
  10. Markstang

    Markstang Polishing my banhammer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    58
    It's about the efficiency, running the m112 takes more energy to turn at the same kind of flow rate as the m90. plus the way the m90 is routed, it's easy to intercool.
     
  11. Phil II

    Phil II Cone Destroyer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Columbia, South Carolina
    I can't agree with this. I'll do my best to explain.

    The m90 moves 90 c.i. per turn, the m112 moves 112 c.i. Both are fifth generation eaton superchargers, whose rotor design is not terribly efficient, especially compared to a twin screw blower of similar displacement.

    So let's say I'm trying to move 50 lbm/min at WOT and I'm seeing about 10 pounds of boost and 200F. I'm borrowing this from my own engine, which isn't a great standard, but its what I know.
    Pr=(Pgage+Patm)/Patm=1.68
    Converting mass flow rate to volumetric flow rate, I get 772 ft^3/min by considering the air as an ideal gas. Looking at the compressor map, my m112 is in the second tier region, and is near 8k rpm.

    Carry this information to a m90. I'm assuming the Pr would not change, since its a function of the engine's V.E. and that 772 ft^3/min are still needed. This corresponding region on the M90 compressor map is one more region less efficient and the blower has to turn some 2k rpm more than the m112. That means more heat, and less ignition timing, ergo less power.

    In general terms for positive displacement blowers, for a given volumetric flow rate and pressure ratio, efficiency rises as blower displacement rises, mostly due to the fewer revolutions. You can see a kind of confirmation of this looking at what Eaton, Whipple, and Kenne Bell have done with their recent products. The TVS blowers have improved rotor design, tighter clearances, and are bigger. I thnk the smallest TVS blower is 1.9l, a little bigger than the m112 (1.8l).

    If I was to do the m112 thing all over, I'd start with an m122 taken off an earlier GT500 and turned the driver's side into the intake side. Even though the new blowers are bigger, their form factor is much more compact. I was checking out the 2.3l TVS on a GT500 this past weekend at cars and coffee, and its actually shorter in height than my m112.


    As for intercooling, I surmise that you're referring to the air-to-air setup like on supercoupes. Its possible to do this with the m112, and it has been done using a Whipple.
    Some links:
    4.2 Supercoupe w/2.3 Whipple video - V6Power Messageboard
    New 4.3 motor installed and running - V6Power Messageboard
    91 SC pulls 500 rwhp....well almost - V6Power Messageboard
     
  12. Markstang

    Markstang Polishing my banhammer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Okay then, I should just say that the m90 came stock on a 3.8 so it's easy to put on a singleport as the parts already exist. But in this case, he's putting it on a splitport because of the special intake manifold that he obtained to fit it. Just wants to be unique I guess.
     
  13. sabin

    sabin New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Chicago
    this is quite old, but anyone heard of the results with this project?
     
  14. RustyRodder

    RustyRodder Dumbass. That's you.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    15,809
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Not NYC