Mega Squirt Tuning

greensteeda

Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!
I was looking into all of the options to make sure that my new engine will have a long and happy life. I came across several people that have told me that using an MAF based tuning system is limited in how reliable it is under different conditions. I have also been told that using a MAP based system like Mega Squirt could be the ticket for safely running boost on a race only car.

I am a complete noob at tuning so I wanted to hear if anybody has messed with that system on a V6.
 

JTsStang

Boosted V6
Diller, I would stay with sct for the simple fact you have support. Phil and myself both have boosted 4.3's and tune our self. It's really not all that hard as long as there are no mechanical issues going on. I also have a real nice base tune file you could start from.

If I had it to do over again I would have went with binary editor to tune on the fly. Only down side to this sct is you have to shut the car down to reflash it. Know a guy who tunes with be and was sitting at a stop light while his buddy was driving decided the idle needed to be raised. Entered the desired rpm for the idle and hit the enter button.

As for maf vs map, I think these slot mafs are VERY easy to tune and are very accurate.
 

greensteeda

Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!
The reason I am really at a crossroads is that my LiveWire has taken a crap on me. In order to get back into the SCT game I would need the software and a new interface (Xcal2-3). For a little less I could get everything needed to setup the MS and have it work regardless of injector brand and MAF calibration.

I am not counting out the SCT stuff. Hell, I may even take it back to a tuner to let them fool with it. I just want to make sure whatever path I choose, I don't kill the motor or spend the rest of my life tuning.
 

Ortiz

Sup
Diller, I would stay with sct for the simple fact you have support. Phil and myself both have boosted 4.3's and tune our self. It's really not all that hard as long as there are no mechanical issues going on. I also have a real nice base tune file you could start from.

If I had it to do over again I would have went with binary editor to tune on the fly. Only down side to this sct is you have to shut the car down to reflash it. Know a guy who tunes with be and was sitting at a stop light while his buddy was driving decided the idle needed to be raised. Entered the desired rpm for the idle and hit the enter button.

As for maf vs map, I think these slot mafs are VERY easy to tune and are very accurate.

Agreed on every point.
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
While 20psi has some good points about there being more support for sct, maf based tuning is much less accurate than map, it's easy to tune wot, but what about decel? Part throttle mid boost? Etc.. Yes you can tune all the different engine loads and rpms and whatnot, but it will take a lot of time to do. For a drag car/street light warrior, binary editor/quarterhorse is THE way to go. For road a road race car with a turbo, In my opinion id say megasquirt or proefi 128 is the way to go. Proefi is 1000% better than megasquirt but costs 225% more than megasquirt.
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
Never...EVER go with sct. Unless you like shutting down, unplugging, editing, saving, plug back in and hope your changes worked. That will easily triple the time it takes to tune a motor.
 

greensteeda

Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!
So now if anybody has any experience, I need to know how to integrate the MS as a piggy back. My limited research points me to having to tap into the CPS for timing and then moving the injector wires from the stock ecu to the MS. Now the question of wiring to the coil pack from the MS is what has me lost right now. I think it would be a lot easier if I had one in my hand to look over.
 

Jesse01V6

Away from V6's for now........
Did you e-mail DIY?

I'm going to run the PNP MS3 on my fox 408 project, I e-mailed them a few questions and they got back to me pretty quick.
 

greensteeda

Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!
Not yet. I wanted to get the basic research done so I have some intelligent questions to ask. They seem to be the place to go though.
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
Call Ron, 96b.boy / 8byah6. He's done a dozen or so MS installs. I'm going to have to piggy back my stand alone off the stock ecu so I can retain PATS and the digital odometer. I plan to cut the output wires from the ecu to the injectors and coil, so the ecu will only be reading sensor data, not controlling them. Other than that, there's not much else the ecu controls since I did the full manual valve body swap.
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
If you want to retain egr and the Evap system you'll need to retain the stock ecu as well. Technically you could program that into the megasquirt but idk when the evap/egr is commanded on these cars.
 

greensteeda

Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!
Call Ron, 96b.boy / 8byah6. He's done a dozen or so MS installs. I'm going to have to piggy back my stand alone off the stock ecu so I can retain PATS and the digital odometer. I plan to cut the output wires from the ecu to the injectors and coil, so the ecu will only be reading sensor data, not controlling them. Other than that, there's not much else the ecu controls since I did the full manual valve body swap.

This is 100% what I want to do. I don't care about the MS doing anything else. What sensors do I need to tap into for the MS to control the injectors and coil pack? I'm guessing just send a vacuum line to the MAP sensor, tap into the throttle positioning sensor, and tap into the cam or crank positioning sensor. I would then wire in my wideband to the MS so that it could aim for a specific AFR.

I may sell my high dollar VMP HPX maf in favor of a cheap o stock 05+ maf to retain the temperature sensor. I am also guessing that I will need to have the MS control the IAC.
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
Yes the ms will control the iac, coil pack and injectors, you can have the fan stay with the stock ecu if you want. The fan will come on at normal temp though, so if you want it on sooner you will need to have the ms turn the fan on and off. Do it like this, have the ms mounted next to the stock ecu and tap into the bulkhead coming right off the stock ecu. You won't need to run wires throughout the engine bay and you can put the kick panel back so the ms is hidden. Tap into the boost gauge vacuum line for the map sensor in the ms, since the boost gauge is already in the drivers compartment. No need to run two separate vacuum lines. You could use the maf as an intake air sensor. It won't be a big restriction since you're running something like 350hp for road racing right?
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
There's no sensor in particular that fires the coil. Spark is determined by engine rpm via the reluctor wheel, intake temp via the sensor, volume of air going into the engine (load), engine coolant temp, and air/fuel ratio.
 

greensteeda

Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!
There's no sensor in particular that fires the coil. Spark is determined by engine rpm via the reluctor wheel, intake temp via the sensor, volume of air going into the engine (load), engine coolant temp, and air/fuel ratio.

Gotcha. What signal is sent to actually fire the spark?


Also, the more I read up on it, I don't know if the stock returnless fuel system will work. I don't see it being THAT big of a deal to convert over to the return system as long as I don't have to run huge lines to and from the fuel rail. Would I be able to let the stock ECU control the fuel pump voltage or would going to a returnless be the ticket.
 

6 Shooter

Well-Known Member
IMHO, this is where the complexity lies. Maybe unknown territory. And, if you go MS, you will have to learn two tuning software programs when you piggyback. Make sure you ask someone using the MS and Ford EEC in combination if they were able to clip enough system switches and codes to not throw any SEL codes. Would ba annoying nin a race situation.
 

greensteeda

Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!
IMHO, this is where the complexity lies. Maybe unknown territory. And, if you go MS, you will have to learn two tuning software programs when you piggyback. Make sure you ask someone using the MS and Ford EEC in combination if they were able to clip enough system switches and codes to not throw any SEL codes. Would ba annoying nin a race situation.

This is another reason why I think just jumping down the rabbit hole and using the MS as a stand alone may be the way to go...this could get interesting.
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
Only one tuning program is needed. You don't need to touch the stock ecu's tune for any reason whatsoever. The one and only reason I'm retaining the stock ecu is for the digital odometer. I can remove pats if I wanted, pats is the only sub-reason for keeping the stock ecu as well. Yes you will trip the cel/ses/mil/etc..light. Ill pull the bulb out on my cluster. Plus with the Bluetooth feature on the megasquirt and the megasquirt app for smart phones you can tune and data log via your android
 

fasterthanyou

Active Member
You can only data log with iPhone, not tune :( and with GPS of a smart phone you can keep track of lap times and speeds throughout the course
 
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