Welcome To V6Mustang.com!

We are the oldest and largest V6 Mustang forum on the internet. If you have any questions about your V6 Mustang or just want to connect with other V6 Mustang owners around the world, you have found the best place on the internet to do that.

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon!

Mega Squirt Tuning

Discussion in '2005-2010 V6 Mustang Tech' started by greensteeda, Apr 8, 2013.

Page 1 of 2
  1. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    I was looking into all of the options to make sure that my new engine will have a long and happy life. I came across several people that have told me that using an MAF based tuning system is limited in how reliable it is under different conditions. I have also been told that using a MAP based system like Mega Squirt could be the ticket for safely running boost on a race only car.

    I am a complete noob at tuning so I wanted to hear if anybody has messed with that system on a V6.
     
    greensteeda, Apr 8, 2013
    greensteeda, Apr 8, 2013
    #1
  2. mustang024

    mustang024 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    LI, NY
    Talk to Ron(8byah6) he would be the MS guru here. I believe he was developing a PnP for us v6 guys
     
    mustang024, Apr 8, 2013
    mustang024, Apr 8, 2013
    #2
  3. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,351
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    East Coast
    Diller, I would stay with sct for the simple fact you have support. Phil and myself both have boosted 4.3's and tune our self. It's really not all that hard as long as there are no mechanical issues going on. I also have a real nice base tune file you could start from.

    If I had it to do over again I would have went with binary editor to tune on the fly. Only down side to this sct is you have to shut the car down to reflash it. Know a guy who tunes with be and was sitting at a stop light while his buddy was driving decided the idle needed to be raised. Entered the desired rpm for the idle and hit the enter button.

    As for maf vs map, I think these slot mafs are VERY easy to tune and are very accurate.
     
    JTsStang, Apr 8, 2013
    JTsStang, Apr 8, 2013
    #3
  4. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    The reason I am really at a crossroads is that my LiveWire has taken a crap on me. In order to get back into the SCT game I would need the software and a new interface (Xcal2-3). For a little less I could get everything needed to setup the MS and have it work regardless of injector brand and MAF calibration.

    I am not counting out the SCT stuff. Hell, I may even take it back to a tuner to let them fool with it. I just want to make sure whatever path I choose, I don't kill the motor or spend the rest of my life tuning.
     
    greensteeda, Apr 8, 2013
    greensteeda, Apr 8, 2013
    #4
  5. Ortiz

    Ortiz Sup

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Messages:
    8,374
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Alamo, Tx
    Agreed on every point.
     
    Ortiz, Apr 8, 2013
    Ortiz, Apr 8, 2013
    #5
  6. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    While 20psi has some good points about there being more support for sct, maf based tuning is much less accurate than map, it's easy to tune wot, but what about decel? Part throttle mid boost? Etc.. Yes you can tune all the different engine loads and rpms and whatnot, but it will take a lot of time to do. For a drag car/street light warrior, binary editor/quarterhorse is THE way to go. For road a road race car with a turbo, In my opinion id say megasquirt or proefi 128 is the way to go. Proefi is 1000% better than megasquirt but costs 225% more than megasquirt.
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    #6
  7. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    Never...EVER go with sct. Unless you like shutting down, unplugging, editing, saving, plug back in and hope your changes worked. That will easily triple the time it takes to tune a motor.
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    #7
  8. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    So now if anybody has any experience, I need to know how to integrate the MS as a piggy back. My limited research points me to having to tap into the CPS for timing and then moving the injector wires from the stock ecu to the MS. Now the question of wiring to the coil pack from the MS is what has me lost right now. I think it would be a lot easier if I had one in my hand to look over.
     
    greensteeda, Apr 9, 2013
    greensteeda, Apr 9, 2013
    #8
  9. Jesse01V6

    Jesse01V6 Away from V6's for now........

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    Did you e-mail DIY?

    I'm going to run the PNP MS3 on my fox 408 project, I e-mailed them a few questions and they got back to me pretty quick.
     
    Jesse01V6, Apr 9, 2013
    Jesse01V6, Apr 9, 2013
    #9
  10. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    Not yet. I wanted to get the basic research done so I have some intelligent questions to ask. They seem to be the place to go though.
     
    greensteeda, Apr 9, 2013
    greensteeda, Apr 9, 2013
    #10
  11. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    Call Ron, 96b.boy / 8byah6. He's done a dozen or so MS installs. I'm going to have to piggy back my stand alone off the stock ecu so I can retain PATS and the digital odometer. I plan to cut the output wires from the ecu to the injectors and coil, so the ecu will only be reading sensor data, not controlling them. Other than that, there's not much else the ecu controls since I did the full manual valve body swap.
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    #11
  12. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    If you want to retain egr and the Evap system you'll need to retain the stock ecu as well. Technically you could program that into the megasquirt but idk when the evap/egr is commanded on these cars.
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 9, 2013
    #12
  13. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    This is 100% what I want to do. I don't care about the MS doing anything else. What sensors do I need to tap into for the MS to control the injectors and coil pack? I'm guessing just send a vacuum line to the MAP sensor, tap into the throttle positioning sensor, and tap into the cam or crank positioning sensor. I would then wire in my wideband to the MS so that it could aim for a specific AFR.

    I may sell my high dollar VMP HPX maf in favor of a cheap o stock 05+ maf to retain the temperature sensor. I am also guessing that I will need to have the MS control the IAC.
     
    greensteeda, Apr 9, 2013
    greensteeda, Apr 9, 2013
    #13
  14. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    Yes the ms will control the iac, coil pack and injectors, you can have the fan stay with the stock ecu if you want. The fan will come on at normal temp though, so if you want it on sooner you will need to have the ms turn the fan on and off. Do it like this, have the ms mounted next to the stock ecu and tap into the bulkhead coming right off the stock ecu. You won't need to run wires throughout the engine bay and you can put the kick panel back so the ms is hidden. Tap into the boost gauge vacuum line for the map sensor in the ms, since the boost gauge is already in the drivers compartment. No need to run two separate vacuum lines. You could use the maf as an intake air sensor. It won't be a big restriction since you're running something like 350hp for road racing right?
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    #14
  15. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    There's no sensor in particular that fires the coil. Spark is determined by engine rpm via the reluctor wheel, intake temp via the sensor, volume of air going into the engine (load), engine coolant temp, and air/fuel ratio.
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    #15
  16. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    Gotcha. What signal is sent to actually fire the spark?


    Also, the more I read up on it, I don't know if the stock returnless fuel system will work. I don't see it being THAT big of a deal to convert over to the return system as long as I don't have to run huge lines to and from the fuel rail. Would I be able to let the stock ECU control the fuel pump voltage or would going to a returnless be the ticket.
     
    greensteeda, Apr 10, 2013
    greensteeda, Apr 10, 2013
    #16
  17. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,338
    Likes Received:
    226
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    IMHO, this is where the complexity lies. Maybe unknown territory. And, if you go MS, you will have to learn two tuning software programs when you piggyback. Make sure you ask someone using the MS and Ford EEC in combination if they were able to clip enough system switches and codes to not throw any SEL codes. Would ba annoying nin a race situation.
     
    6 Shooter, Apr 10, 2013
    6 Shooter, Apr 10, 2013
    #17
  18. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    This is another reason why I think just jumping down the rabbit hole and using the MS as a stand alone may be the way to go...this could get interesting.
     
    greensteeda, Apr 10, 2013
    greensteeda, Apr 10, 2013
    #18
  19. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    Only one tuning program is needed. You don't need to touch the stock ecu's tune for any reason whatsoever. The one and only reason I'm retaining the stock ecu is for the digital odometer. I can remove pats if I wanted, pats is the only sub-reason for keeping the stock ecu as well. Yes you will trip the cel/ses/mil/etc..light. Ill pull the bulb out on my cluster. Plus with the Bluetooth feature on the megasquirt and the megasquirt app for smart phones you can tune and data log via your android
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    #19
  20. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Florida
    You can only data log with iPhone, not tune :( and with GPS of a smart phone you can keep track of lap times and speeds throughout the course
     
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    fasterthanyou, Apr 10, 2013
    #20
Page 1 of 2