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My Turn @ Pulling the Trigger on a Twin Turbo

Discussion in 'Personal Projects and Builds' started by 6 Shooter, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Been modifying my car over the years in the garage and haved one
    more than most. Had a ProCharger P1at first, and now a D1. Have
    used a 3.0 pulley, a 3.2 and a 2.4, maxing out at 18 psi
    of boost. Have used a ProCharger intercooler and now use a
    31 horizontal flow intercooler with 3 entry and 3 exit.
    Started with ProCharger 3 steel intake piping, but have switched
    to aluminum. Have gone from a Focus pump with a BAP, to twin Cobra
    pumps, to twin GT-40 pumps, toa return style fuel system using a
    MagnaFuel pump and regulator. Didn't like the pump cavitation
    at tankfull and the constant smell of fuel vapors. Have gone
    back to returnless and twin GT-40 pumps. Have gone from 42 lb
    injectors, to 50s, then60s, then 80s, and now 98s. Have gone from
    a stock upper intake, to a ported lower and upper, to a highly
    modified cut-n-weld upper with expanded height, rear, and L & R
    plenums. From there, went with a Freestar 6 into 12holes lower
    and a custom upper. Have aSnow Meth/water injection system and
    also Nitrous. Went from a 70mm throttle body, to a bored72mm TB
    to now an 80 mm TB. Along the way, learned to tune the car mainly
    due to all the changes. Still use A/C, power steering, heater,
    and stereo. It's mainly a street weekend car. When tripling the
    whp or more, lots of things on any car will not be engineered to
    take on the extra power. It takes a lot of add-on parts and
    customparts to make it happen and keep the motor, transmission,
    rearend, driveshaft,etc. from blowing up. It is very frustrating
    making and testing mods to keep the car safe and still pass an
    annual emissions test. So far, so good. Lots of work and plenty
    of $$$$ spent along the way. Have learned a lot and am willing to
    help others minimize some of the expense by buying the right
    parts for the intended application. So now, off to bigger and
    better.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2014
  2. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

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    Really looking forward to the progress!
     
  3. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Phil, very awesome! When you add the money up over time like we have spent it really doesn't seem as bad lol. Wish I had cut through all the bs when I started to mod this car and went straight to a turbo or ts blower. The centri's can make great power and run quick times but it takes a very loose converter to flash them and keep them spinning where optimal power is made, especially on a v6.

    One thing I have learned about turbo's is the converter will make or break the combo. I first had a very inefficient 3400rpm converter behind my setup and it would not hold the power and caused the converter to balloon due to heat. Finally pulled the trigger on an edge racing converter that doesn't lock at wot and now the car is running where it is suppost to. I read a lot on turbo buick.com forum because their engines are so similar to ours. A lot of great info there for turbo pushrod v6's. I'm not fimilar with sizing twin turbo's but for me I love the low end grunt of my single 62mm. I run a .63 ar and feel confident this small housing will go deep 10's. Precision turbo ar's are actually larger than garrett ar's so just keep that in mind. I have been told this little 6262 turbo has potential to go 9's with enough boost. If I do upgrade it will probably be to a 6466 because I really like the hard hitting fast spool.

    What is the goal with this build?
     
  4. SlowSix01

    SlowSix01 Active Member

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    I'm really interested to really start digging into my car with my turbo build but my wallet is not Haha.

    What size are you gonna use for the twins ?
     
  5. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    My goal is 700rwhp with 15 psi of boost and 93 octane. I believe that the supercharger steals 100 rwhp. 4-5 years ago, I dyno'ed 542 to the rear with meth/water injection and 23 degrees of timing. Was using a highly modified and ported upper and lower semi-stock looking intake with meth injection. Ran 11.7 in the 1/4 mile track. Now, have 4 more years of mods and many problems solved, mainly with misfiring. The build should go fairly quick. Began persuing a twin turbo setup back in March. Andy from TMA Turbos got the call. His regular job went to 50+ hours per week and he had to slow down on the build. Concerned about Texas heat, I looked and finally found a 2" thick aluminum radiator (thanks Diller) from Northern that is made for an automatic. Not installed yet, but a perfect fit with the locations for auto trans cooling and mounting pins. Worked with Andy at the time and he shortened the header T-3 flange by 1 inch toward the firewall and cocked them inward by 3 degrees to accommodate the extra thick radiator. I found out that an '03 Cobra radiator was only 1 3/8" thick. A V-6 stock Mustang radiator is only 1" thick.
     
  6. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0148-2_zpse4d0f83e.jpg IMG_0147-2_zps99d1aac5.jpg Spent some time talking with Precision guys and Garrett. Both seem very good. Garrett has a website that helps guide you to the correct size. The disadvantage is however that the website guide does well for a single turbo, but not for twins. That is where prior experience of a dealer or a company engineer comes in. So, I finally decided on twin 3071R Garretts with 4-bolt T-3 flanges for quicker spooling. The headers are 11 gauge and made of 304 Stainless. Am using twin Tial 44mm wastegates and V-band clamps. The intercooler was made by Bell. I looked and looked but could not find an intercooler that would be a guarantee to fit. Most of the twin setup intercoolers were 3 1/2" thick. I wanted a 3" thick intercooler because I know it will fit. The compressor housing is an A/R 50.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2013
  7. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Just a quick search on google showed these turbo's flow around 480 lb/min each, this equates to around 1000hp worth of turbos. Crunching the numbers through a turbo calc shows a pressure ratio needed for 800hp crank is around 3.0pr on a 4.3l. I think your goal of 700rwhp is doable on 15psi but it's going to need rpm and the right cam to make the power. Pretty sure your stage3 heads are up to the task:)

    What was the source of the misfire under boost?
     
  8. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    The source of the misfire was somewhere between 3-4 issues. Changed out the plug wires to Magnecors. Changed out the alternator to one that would put out 200 amps. Got my MSD DIS-4 (spark boost) box repaired which was dead. Exchanged an Excell coilpack for an MSD coilpack which puts our 48,000 volts (the highest of any of the advertised brands). And, added a heat shield to the coil pack.
     
  9. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Parts In House

    IMG_0146-2_zps815f564b.jpg
    44 mm twin Tial wastegates. Uses twin V-band clamps.
    IMG_0145-2_zpsfa814fd1.jpg
    One of the ways to control boost is with the wastegate springs. The separate springs each have different strengths. One has to use multiple springs to get to higher boost pressures. 15 psi will use 3 springs together. Because the springs are of different sizes, the smaller springs fit inside the larger ones.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2013
  10. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

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    Yummy. Thanks for the turbo porn Phil.
     
  11. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0161-2_zps94dbc792.jpg
    This intercooler is made by Belll. It has internal baffels to direct air flow inside the coils for even air flow. For a twin setup, the two inlets are on the bottom and the outlet is the single tube on the top. Built mine to have 2 1/2" inlets and a single 3" exit. Am hoping to add mounting brackets to the bottom to support and hang it on the car. Have a pair of twin pusher fans to go on the front.

    IMG_0159-2_zpsb5868f02.jpg

    New 2" thick (2-core) radiator from Northern that is made for an automatic.
    IMG_0160-2_zps74a9760b.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2013
    JTsStang likes this.
  12. mustang024

    mustang024 Active Member

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    Nice Phil, this project is going to be awesome! I was wondering when you were going to throw a snail or two on your car.:eek:nthego:
     
  13. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Very nice! 53mm turbo's will spool very fast on a 4.3l and make a lot of tq.
     
  14. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Turbo guts.
    IMG_0162-2_zpsffbfd3df.jpg

    Here is how my motor looks at this point with NO modifications for a turbo setup.

    IMG_0005_zpsbf731d2b.jpg
     
  15. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Phil, looks like you have a lot of work to fit those turbos in there. I would ditch a lot of wiring and hoses you no longer need. The hot side will produce a LOT of heat.
     
  16. SlowSix01

    SlowSix01 Active Member

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    holy messy engine bay.

    That intake looks awesome though
     
  17. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Not too worried about too much heat at this point. Found some 3000 degree ceramic coating. But, yes, am aware of what needs to be relocated. Will provide more details and pictures as this project moves along. More parts to show up in the next week or so. Pictures below are from several months ago to show the beginning of the hot section.

    IMG_20130604_201454_zpsb334765c.jpg

    IMG_20130619_002453_zps3f96256b.jpg

    IMG_20130619_002431_zpsae4a3811.jpg

    phil_twin_headers_zps343d98b9.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2013
  18. greensteeda

    greensteeda Retired Speed Racer Mod. Suck It!

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    Let me know when you are taking orders on those headers. They look fantastic.
     
  19. JTsStang

    JTsStang Boosted V6

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    Andy has always done awesome headers! I've got an idea myself when I rebuild my hotside for the 4th time this winter.
     
  20. V6procharged

    V6procharged Moderator Staff Member

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    andy is building the kit, not phil.

    cant wait to see the end result. selling the d1sc im assuming?