PCV Delete.

lilnicky068

Two-tire Fire! :)
I HATE THE SEARCH BUTTON

anyways... what exactly does the PCV delete do and in what applications is it most useful? I know theres got to be another thread about this... links to those possible other threads would be good. :D
 

Jester4Kicks

pwn-hawk
it mostly keeps oil from contaminating your upper intake. no real performance gain.
Correct, no performance gain. For the record, you're not actually "deleting" it. All you're doing is modifying it so that it doesn't allow oil to get into your intake. You can do so be just venting it into the engine bay with a filter, or by preserving the line to the intake and just adding a couple filters to block the oil.
 

taylor0987

New Member
I put a filter on my PCV system and it eliminated pinging. It catches ALOT of oil especially if I am driving the car hard (like at the track).
 

Jester4Kicks

pwn-hawk
I put a filter on my PCV system and it eliminated pinging. It catches ALOT of oil especially if I am driving the car hard (like at the track).
1) Realistically speaking, most people spend 1% of their total driving time at the track.

2) I'm not entirely sure how a PCV delete would eliminate pinging... or how you got to that condition in the first place. :wtf:
 

taylor0987

New Member
1) Realistically speaking, most people spend 1% of their total driving time at the track.

2) I'm not entirely sure how a PCV delete would eliminate pinging... or how you got to that condition in the first place. :wtf:
Wow. I don't think I deserve a "what the ****" face for posting accurate information.
1. I was getting the pinging in everyday driving, a year before I had ever been to the track. Mine accumulates about 2 ounces of oil in a month or so of regular driving. It gets about as much as that if I do 7 or 8 runs at the track. I drive the car hard sometimes other than when I am at the track, and some of the members of this board drive their cars hard 100% of the time or at least brag about doing so.

2. The PCV system is overactive. It's a known problem. The oil creates carbon deposits on the combustion chamber and the valves. carbon deposits cause pinging.



don't trust me, see what your fellow moderator wrote.
http://www.v6mustang.com/threads/173657/
KTBug said:
The oil may become severe enough to cause pinging. Remove the upper intake and clean it out with some carb cleaner spray. Reinstall it along with an oil separator attached to the PCV line. 99 and 00 are infamous for this problem. Ford supposedly fixed the problem with a new style valve cover in 01.
or maybe someone highly respected
http://www.v6mustang.com/threads/136919/
Pinging is usually caused by carbon buildup in the heads, which raises the compression ratio. With the oil/air separator in place, you'll stop the carbon buildup from getting worse.
or more info on his site, plus a link to Ford's TSB acknowledging the problem:
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/pcv_filter.htm

The PCV valve on 99-00 3.8L V6 Mustangs is located on the driver's side valve cover. At the end of the 2000 model year it was discovered that the 99-00 valve cover has a design flaw that permits engine oil to be drawn up into the PCV valve and then to the upper intake. This oil forms excessive carbon deposits in the combustion chambers that can produce spark knock under heavy acceleration, particularly when running on 87 octane gasoline. This problem is addressed
or steeda
http://www.steeda.com/store/-catalog/555-3710.htm
Steeda's oil separator kit reduces detonation, oil burning and deposits on the valves by removing oil drawn through the PCV system before it can contaminate the intake charge.
 
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98mustangfreak

New Member
Wow. I don't think I deserve a "what the ****" face for posting accurate information.
1. I was getting the pinging in everyday driving, a year before I had ever been to the track. Mine accumulates about 2 ounces of oil in a month or so of regular driving. It gets about as much as that if I do 7 or 8 runs at the track. I drive the car hard sometimes other than when I am at the track, and some of the members of this board drive their cars hard 100% of the time or at least brag about doing so.

2. The PCV system is overactive. It's a known problem. The oil creates carbon deposits on the combustion chamber and the valves. carbon deposits cause pinging.



don't trust me, see what your fellow moderator wrote.
http://www.v6mustang.com/threads/173657/

or maybe someone highly respected
http://www.v6mustang.com/threads/136919/

or more info on his site, plus a link to Ford's TSB acknowledging the problem:
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/pcv_filter.htm



or steeda
http://www.steeda.com/store/-catalog/555-3710.htm


WOW, I guess you proved your point
maybe you should be a laywer:)
 
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Jester4Kicks

pwn-hawk
Wow. I don't think I deserve a "what the ****" face for posting accurate information.
1. I was getting the pinging in everyday driving, a year before I had ever been to the track. Mine accumulates about 2 ounces of oil in a month or so of regular driving. It gets about as much as that if I do 7 or 8 runs at the track. I drive the car hard sometimes other than when I am at the track, and some of the members of this board drive their cars hard 100% of the time or at least brag about doing so.

2. The PCV system is overactive. It's a known problem. The oil creates carbon deposits on the combustion chamber and the valves. carbon deposits cause pinging.
Wow... defensive much? :uhh:

The wtf smiley was accurately placed at the end of a statement which I made because I didn't see any reason you would be experiencing those problems. My 2000 didn't have any issues with pinging, I drove it pretty hard on a regular basis, and took it up to about 45K miles before trading it in. I never experienced the problem you're describing and, to be honest, this is the first I've ever heard of the PCV causing such a massive problem.

Obviously it's a more serious issue than I was aware of. Thanks for clearing it up. Next time how about relaxing just a tad while you post. Try something simple... like breathing. ;)
 

taylor0987

New Member
Wow... defensive much? :uhh:

The wtf smiley was accurately placed at the end of a statement which I made because I didn't see any reason you would be experiencing those problems. My 2000 didn't have any issues with pinging, I drove it pretty hard on a regular basis, and took it up to about 45K miles before trading it in. I never experienced the problem you're describing and, to be honest, this is the first I've ever heard of the PCV causing such a massive problem.

Obviously it's a more serious issue than I was aware of. Thanks for clearing it up. Next time how about relaxing just a tad while you post. Try something simple... like breathing. ;)
huh? I'm plenty relaxed, and was while I was making the post. Perhaps it's you who need to take a breather--or at least do some research-- before saying "what the ****" to someone. Whether you put it in words or the "cute" little smiley, it's still offensive, unfriendly and disrespectful.

Anyway, I'm in the technical section of the board to talk about technical things.

The car I was talking about is a modified 94 with split port swap. best time so far is 14.678 @ 94.something mph. It has a 93 octane mail order tune with tons of timing. (and I still think it's a bit too much timing, I am working on getting a better tune) The more timing you have the more prone the car is to detonation. The heads have been milled so my compression ratio is higher than stock. Higher compression also makes an engine more prone to detonation.

It started only a couple thousand miles after doing the swap. My intakes and heads were completely clear of oil when I installed them. However, my shortblock had over 100,000 miles on it. Higher mileage engines are more prone to blowby (gasses escaping past the rings into the crankcase) due to ring and cylinder wall wear . Blowby gases pick up alot of oil mist as they move through the engine. The whole point of the PCV system is to ventilate the blowby gases out of the crankcase, hence the problem with the oil getting sucked back into the engine.

I contacted the person who did my tune and it was his recommendation to put a filter in the PCV. After he told me that I did some research including reading threads on this and other message boards. And as I said it helped solve the problem.

I don't know if your 2000 was stock or to what extent it was modified. Ford revised the valve covers in mid-year 2000, so your car may very well have had one from the factory and therefore been less prone to the problem. If it was stock, or you were running higher octane gas on a stock or more conservative (or better) tune, then your car might not have been even close to pinging. Or if you were regularly seafoaming it, then you would have kept those deposits under control.
 

Danger Dude

Living one day at a time
A. Crankcase is a necessity so crankcase vaoprs do not build up inside the engine and go BOOM. That is a reality

B. On 99 the faulty design in the Valve covers created a problem were excessive oil was being vented into the intake.

c. So you either modify the PVC. Change the valve covers to a newer or older design. You can also by small filters on the Valve covers and vent it outside, but the drawback is the annoying oil smell you get inside your car from time to time.
 

lilnicky068

Two-tire Fire! :)
hmmmmm oil in the intake... doesnt sound good.

danger dude: I have a 99... you think this is something I need to worry about?
 

Jester4Kicks

pwn-hawk
huh? I'm plenty relaxed, and was while I was making the post. Perhaps it's you who need to take a breather--or at least do some research-- before saying "what the ****" to someone. Whether you put it in words or the "cute" little smiley, it's still offensive, unfriendly and disrespectful.

Anyway, I'm in the technical section of the board to talk about technical things.

The car I was talking about is a modified 94 with split port swap. best time so far is 14.678 @ 94.something mph. It has a 93 octane mail order tune with tons of timing. (and I still think it's a bit too much timing, I am working on getting a better tune) The more timing you have the more prone the car is to detonation. The heads have been milled so my compression ratio is higher than stock. Higher compression also makes an engine more prone to detonation.

It started only a couple thousand miles after doing the swap. My intakes and heads were completely clear of oil when I installed them. However, my shortblock had over 100,000 miles on it. Higher mileage engines are more prone to blowby (gasses escaping past the rings into the crankcase) due to ring and cylinder wall wear . Blowby gases pick up alot of oil mist as they move through the engine. The whole point of the PCV system is to ventilate the blowby gases out of the crankcase, hence the problem with the oil getting sucked back into the engine.

I contacted the person who did my tune and it was his recommendation to put a filter in the PCV. After he told me that I did some research including reading threads on this and other message boards. And as I said it helped solve the problem.

I don't know if your 2000 was stock or to what extent it was modified. Ford revised the valve covers in mid-year 2000, so your car may very well have had one from the factory and therefore been less prone to the problem. If it was stock, or you were running higher octane gas on a stock or more conservative (or better) tune, then your car might not have been even close to pinging. Or if you were regularly seafoaming it, then you would have kept those deposits under control.
Dude.... it's a smiley... sorry if you took it the wrong way... but it's just a smiley. ;) :rolleyes: :lol:

Anyway, now I can see why you were primed to experience that kind of problem. If your engine was already at risk for pinging due to the mods you did to it, then I could easily see how an extra problem like that faulty PCV would push it over the edge.

Keep in mind though, I have no way of seeing what mods you've done to your various cars. In the tech forums, we generally rely strongly on a person's sig to see what they've done to their engine and get a better idea of all the factors involved. As far as I knew... your engine was stock when you said the PCV "alone" caused it to ping. Which given what I've just read is still possible, but not usually the case.

As for my 2000, I had a TON of stuff done to it... but I'm fairly certain it was a late-2000 make, so it very well could have already had the modified PCV system. If used two different tunes, both with modified timing for higher octane gas. The first (pre-cam) was from the guys at Fordchip back before they were running SCT, and the second (post-cam) was some guy from American Motorsport that was recommended by the guy who I bought the cam from. Both chips worked fine, but if I had to get a chip at this point, I'd save time and just get an X-Cal 2 with a program from Justin or Mik.

Save yourself the same hassle. Don't buy another pretuned chip. Just get the Xcal so you or your dyno-tuner can make the adjustments with real-time data. ;) <--- Just another smiley, I'm not hitting on you. :lol:
 

Jester4Kicks

pwn-hawk
hmmmmm oil in the intake... doesnt sound good.

danger dude: I have a 99... you think this is something I need to worry about?
Generally, I don't like to fix something if it's not broken. While this might cause you some problems... it also might not. In your shoes, I'd keep an eye on it, periodically check my intake for any obvious problems, and if I noticed a build-up, I'd probably go ahead and add one of the filter systems or catch-cans.

It can't really hurt anything to do it, other than a minor ding to your wallet, and it shouldn't interfere with any of your future modding decisions.
 

97mustang3.8l

$500 DX Killa
i dont think that smiley should be a what the **** smiley you can put it in alot of places that it fits but "wtf" wouldnt fit for instance:


So hows the turbo doing:wtf:


so hows the turbo doing? What The ****?
 

taylor0987

New Member
Lilnicky, if you use one of those cheap clear fuel filters, then putting in an inline filter in the PCV line takes about the same amount of money and time as using seafoam to clean everything out. It's less expensive than changing the valve cover which hasn't completely solved people's problems. It's a preventative measure that doesn't have any negative effects. I think it's easier to keep your intakes and combustion champers clean than it is to try to clean them once you start having a problem.

Keep in mind though, I have no way of seeing what mods you've done to your various cars. In the tech forums, we generally rely strongly on a person's sig to see what they've done to their engine and get a better idea of all the factors involved
If I was asking a question, I would have listed my mods. In this situation my mods or which one of my cars that it happened to weren't relevant. Neither is what kind of car the original poster has. He wanted to know when it could help, and pinging is one situation that it can, even on 100% stock cars (refer to Ford's TSB, etc.). Although the 99-early 00 v6ers have a particular problem, it's really a universal thing across many makes and models of cars
corvette: http://www.racingflix.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3904&get=last (scroll down to Nuke61's post, slightly more than half way down the page)
neon/srt4: http://www.neonrick.com/oilair_howto.html
etc.
...was some guy from American Motorsport that was recommended by the guy who I bought the cam from.

Save yourself the same hassle. Don't buy another pretuned chip. Just get the Xcal so you or your dyno-tuner can make the adjustments with real-time data.
The chip I bought was a 4-position SCT chip with a single tune from American Motorsport, and Alberto took into account the specific mods done to my car. If I remember correctly, Xcal2 wasn't out at that time, and it the chip was alot less expensive (i.e. what I could afford) than the other SCT tuner thing they had. My car has run acceptably on it for 2 or so years and like I said is getting high 14.6's which is not bad-- it puts me at #15 out of 102 cars on v6power's naturally aspirated timeslip list http://www.v6power.net/portal/timeslips/na.php

I didn't plan on buying another mailorder tune. A local SCT guy, Jon Lund, is going to do on-the-road and on-the-track datalogging with his equipment and give me 4 tunes on my existing chip for a really good price. He's giving me a deal since he's intersted in v6 cars--his wife has one--and plus how I got in contact with him. It's really not a hassle for me to meet up with him at the drag strip. He will reburn my chip, do more datalogging, reburn, etc until it's just right. So there is no need for me to have my own Xcal2 and wideband, and if I have problems he's frequently at the same track as me with his Cobra or his wife's V6, and with his datalogging gear.

Jon's supposed to be a pretty good tuner. Pete C. (fordchip) recommended him to me, and Justin of VMP knows him and has worked together with him on some cars in the past. So I think that I'm in good hands.
 

RPM-Mustangs

Active Member
A. Crankcase is a necessity so crankcase vaoprs do not build up inside the engine and go BOOM. That is a reality

B. On 99 the faulty design in the Valve covers created a problem were excessive oil was being vented into the intake.

c. So you either modify the PVC. Change the valve covers to a newer or older design. You can also by small filters on the Valve covers and vent it outside, but the drawback is the annoying oil smell you get inside your car from time to time.
A couple notes, crankcase ventillation is necessary not so much for the reason above. Pressure would build up and find a relief point, probably your oil dipstick tube, or perhaps an intake gasket. More importantly, though, is the vapors (partly burnt fuel/hydrocarbons/nitrous oxides, etc) are pretty nasty and can deteriorate your oil.

B) more specifically the oil was being drawn into the intake. Venting would indicate the oil was being pressurized and forced into the intake (this can happen if you have a supercharged car and your PCV system is hooked up incorrectly, pressurizing the crankcase). Really what's happening is the hole in the valve cover baffle is of such a diameter that it causes a venturii effect which speeds up the velocity of the vapor and makes the vacuum in the intake manifold draw the vapor (more heavily laden with oil than it might normally be) into the intake more easily.

The 01+ valve covers have a slightly enlarged baffle hole to reduce the venturii effect. You can take your VC's apart and drill out the hole. You can also stuff the area between the baffle and cover with stainless steel wool. I've seen howtos on this for various cars as it's been a problem for a few manufacturers. I had to do it on a friend's nissan which sucked a disgusting amount of oil out. Use a good PCV valve, I've had bad luck with the brand that rhymes with ram. Lastly, install a catchcan or cheapo clear fuel filter.

I've seen some ridiculously disgusting 99-00 intakes come in as core. Some had as much as 3/16" of "tar" covering the runners. It takes a long time and a lot of solvent to clean that crap out.

Not only does the oil create carbon deposits in the chamber in the long run after it's partly burnt, but in the short run it changes (lowers) the octane of your fuel (since it's in the chamber during ignition).
 

Danger Dude

Living one day at a time
A couple notes, crankcase ventillation is necessary not so much for the reason above. Pressure would build up and find a relief point, probably your oil dipstick tube, or perhaps an intake gasket. More importantly, though, is the vapors (partly burnt fuel/hydrocarbons/nitrous oxides, etc) are pretty nasty and can deteriorate your oil.

B) more specifically the oil was being drawn into the intake. Venting would indicate the oil was being pressurized and forced into the intake (this can happen if you have a supercharged car and your PCV system is hooked up incorrectly, pressurizing the crankcase). Really what's happening is the hole in the valve cover baffle is of such a diameter that it causes a venturii effect which speeds up the velocity of the vapor and makes the vacuum in the intake manifold draw the vapor (more heavily laden with oil than it might normally be) into the intake more easily.

The 01+ valve covers have a slightly enlarged baffle hole to reduce the venturii effect. You can take your VC's apart and drill out the hole. You can also stuff the area between the baffle and cover with stainless steel wool. I've seen howtos on this for various cars as it's been a problem for a few manufacturers. I had to do it on a friend's nissan which sucked a disgusting amount of oil out. Use a good PCV valve, I've had bad luck with the brand that rhymes with ram. Lastly, install a catchcan or cheapo clear fuel filter.

I've seen some ridiculously disgusting 99-00 intakes come in as core. Some had as much as 3/16" of "tar" covering the runners. It takes a long time and a lot of solvent to clean that crap out.

Not only does the oil create carbon deposits in the chamber in the long run after it's partly burnt, but in the short run it changes (lowers) the octane of your fuel (since it's in the chamber during ignition).
I have seen crankcase explosions as well as a buildup of gasses cause seals and gaskets to leak. Cranks case detonation is not nearly the problem today because both valve covers vent.
 
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