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Rich in one bank, lean in the other, equal on load

Discussion in '1994-2004 V6 Mustang Tech' started by kitsune1324, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    It's a 2000. I have an ECU for a 2004 but I read it's not a straightforward swap so I've been holding off on throwing it in. Do you have any info on this? The one I got is from a 2004 manual v6.
    Funny enough, I've actually had your old intake for the past several years and finally got to throw it on. Once I get the car running correctly and passed emissions, I'll be throwing my procharger on it.
    The bank adjustment would be awesome, but at the moment it looks like cylinder 4 may be misfiring judging on the clear misses in the video and inspection of the spark plugs. I would love any and all input you can provide though!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh. The photo brings back some fond memories. I have made the switch from a 2000 to a 2004 PCM. The bank to bank issue will not go away with the 2000 PCM. But, I have the tune bank bias data on my computer and can send you the two files to change. The switch to a 2004 is not too difficult, but requires adding a CHT sensor and wiring 2 wires into the 104 pin PCM harness. I have an extra PCM harness pin that you can have. Second, once you have the CHT wired in to the 104 pin harness, you will have to take your car to Ford or someone who has use of the Ford IDS flashing software to match the 2004 PCM to the 2000 car. The 2004 PCM will have to be flashed to the 2 keys and the key cylinder sensor with STOCK tune first. While at the dealer, you will then have to flash your latest tune on top of the stock tune. And, there will be a couple of other minor tune mods to match with the transmission and can give you those changes as well.

    Send a private message with your email address and shipping address if you do the switch.
     
  3. Sam36

    Sam36 Active Member

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    Sounds similar to this guy over here: 2004 3.8L Struggling W/ P0175 Code For Months He never did find the issue, but similar in the popping/thumping noise. Mine does the same too, but only for about 30 seconds on a cold start up.
     
  4. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    This morning I added new fuel to the tank to see if it runs any better, it didn't. I'm putting together the logs I've taken so far so people can look at them if they want to. I'll make another post with that later.

    Phil, I'll send you a PM shortly, I really appreciate it! Currently the car is just being tuned by Bama so I can get it passed emissions and make the car at least drivable for a month or two. Also, is the 2004 ecu actually faster/better than the 2000?
    Do you think this issue could be a problem with the computer? While troubleshooting (after driving the car for a while) I found that the mechanic did not attach the ground wire on the coil pack, so it was just hanging there. I'm just trying to think of what else this could be. My main concern is the misfire, I ran the car this morning and immediately pulled the spark plug, it was wet with gas.
    Also, I don't have all the PATS pieces so I'll just need to disable PATS in the tune.

    Sam, I wish mine only did if for the first 30 seconds rather than all the time...Thank you for the link, I'll read it after I send this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  5. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    Just to go over what I've done so far:
    Replaced O2 sensors twice
    Replaced spark plugs
    Replaced spark plug wires
    Replaced coil pack
    Replaced injectors
    Replaced injector pig tail connectors
    Smoked intake and plugged vacuum leaks
    Cleaned maf
    Replaced exhaust gaskets twice
    Leakdown test - good
    Compression test - good
    New fuel in the tank
     
  6. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    Looking through some of the posts, on other threads, could the EGR be the issue? When I smoked the intake smoke was coming out of the holes on the EGR and someone told me that was expected... I hope to god that's not it..but I also hope so too.
     
  7. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    If smoke came out the EGR valve, that means the diaphragm is leaking.
    That should never happen.
    Also, it would affect every cylinder, not just one.
     
  8. Sam36

    Sam36 Active Member

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    Good point. I'd pull the EGR and plug the hole in the intake which it mounts to and see if that makes a difference. Surprisingly, I believe cylinder #4 is the closest to the EGR?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  9. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    #1 is, front passenger side.
     
  10. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    I replaced the EGR valve, unfortunately that didn't change anything..
     
  11. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    One thing I was thinking about, would to be to remove the plugs, then, using a stick or thin screwdriver, measure the piton height of all pistons, as you rotate the engine so one at a time, the pistons are at the bottom of the stroke.
    If one of them is lower than the rest, the engine may have hydro-locked, and bent a piston rod.
     
  12. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    That's a good thought, although the engine was only built 15k miles ago w/ forged pistons and rods, I've driven every mile and have never experienced a hydro lock issue. Could a hydro-lock happen by accident without me knowing?
     
  13. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    Highly doubtful, just throwing that out there.
    I have had similar problems, and taken a while to find them.
     
  14. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    No worries, I appreciate any conversation around it. One thing I saw for diagnosing misfires is that the Cam or crank position sensor could be going bad, is that something I should look into?
     
  15. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    you could remove the two screws that hold the cam position sensor onto the cam synchronizer, and check for play.
    Also, remove the #1 plug, find top dead center, and see if the synchronizer is centered.
    Don't turn the synchronizer until you are sure of Top Dead Center.
    These cars do not often have TDC alignment marks, making TDC a bit of a chore to find.
    The Crankshaft Sensor only goes in one way, it's not adjustable, and does not need to be at TDC to replace.
    You may want to check cam lift, to rule that out.
    I think the PCM was mentioned, but it is rare for that to fail only on one cylinder.
     
  16. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    Also, what is this setup?
    I've never seen this on a 3.8 before.
    Could it have a leak somewhere? 20190817_094029.jpg
     
  17. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    Could you clarify a bit, I'm a little confused why I would need to turn the synchronizer. Is this just for checking play?
    To check cam lift, would I need to pull the cam out?

    On the picture I assume you're referring to the block? That's a setup for nitrous, a certain someone set it up there *cough cough* Phil *cough*. I'm not using it for that purpose so I plugged it up, and no, no leaks came from it when I smoke tested the intake. I'm going to try to smoke test the intake one more time to see if I can find anything, but my hopes are not high.
     
  18. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    You mentioned the cam and crank sensors.
    I meant not to turn it, just check for looseness.
    You can check cam lift by pulling the valve covers, and comparing the retainer heights, all should be the same as the motor is rotated.
    If one is lower, it could be a valve not fully closing from sticking, a small object, bent valve, or bent rod, although it may not even be a valve.
    But, everything is suspect right now.
    Did this happen all of a sudden?
    Under what running conditions?
     
  19. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    I just went back to your first post, it says this problem started after changing the timing chain, the tensioner was broken?
    We might have a bent intake valve.
    Once the motor turns after the chain retards by looseness or slipping a tooth, the intakes can come in contact with the pistons.
    Since #4 plug is the blackest, check valve hieght on the driver side first.
    #4 is the front driverside, and that side valve cover is the easier one to remove.
     
  20. kitsune1324

    kitsune1324 Active Member

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    This just randomly happened..I honestly don't know if it started from the car sitting for a long while or after I had the timing chain/etc replaced and i was driving it to get it passed emissions (drove it about 50 miles, threw the lean/rich codes before I could pass it).
    I'll look into the valve train this weekend unless I can get to it earlier.

    I'm heading home right now but stopped by my parents house to run the car and took this video....

    Tldr: Unplugging the cylinder 4 spark plug wire doesn't change how the car runs.