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Rich in one bank, lean in the other, equal on load

Discussion in '1994-2004 V6 Mustang Tech' started by kitsune1324, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    You DO NEED the cam position sensor, it controls both injection AND ignition timing.
    Try it yourself and your motor will loose power, if it keeps running at all.
    It my run because of a default setting, but the timing of both the fuel and spark would always be the same, putting the car into a limp mode condition.
    Anytime a Cam Sensor is faulty, you will get a cam code.
    If it didn't matter, why would all of the fuel injected cars, and even Diesel engines have them, with the price of parts?
    Because it allows variable timing, like the flyweights or vacuum advance, or both, in distributors, and the fuel timing in a fuel injected engine must inject quicker as rpm's increase..
    The faster you rev the engine, the more advanced the spark and fuel.
    It's your car, do what you want, but I want mine dependable.
    It was built that way for a reason, not just to drive the oil pump. It also is interfaced with an automatic transmission.
    Makes me laugh.
    The guys here in the shop, also!


    As far as the line from the throttle body to the evap, hose, I just used some new fuel line and clamps.
    The hose from the factory is very thin, and was collapsing.
    New hose is thicker, but it at least does not look like it will ever give problems again.
     
  2. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    One of the better ideas, but I think that was tried.
    The EGR is often over looked as a source of a poor running engine.
    3.8's use vacuum instead of a solenoid, but has the same effect.
     
  3. Sam36

    Sam36 Active Member

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    I'd pull every hose that is behind the throttle plate and cap/tape them up. Pull the egr valve too and plug that hole in the intake. Then see what happens.. Clearly something is up with #4. I wouldn't rule out a bad coil until you try two or three different ones.
     
  4. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    Especially the hose from the throttle body to evp.
    You have to hunt that sucker down, sometimes!
     
  5. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

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    Have you ever taken a look at the injector timing table for these motors? Its flat at 260 degrees... I reiterate that for THESE MOTORS the cam sensor is literally useless. I do not use the cam sensor on mine. If I really wanted to have sequential injector firing for controlling individual cylinder trims I could do that by wiring in the cam sensor. But eh, it's simpler just to leave mine in batch fire at 260 and call it a day. I'm not breaking any records with my build.

    I agree that modern factory engines need more resolution for monitoring and controlling cam phasing, injector phasing, runner controls, etc but these motors are pretty old tech.
     
  6. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

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    Only thing that controls ignition timing on these is the crank sensor. I don't have a bone to pick with you personally so don't take my replies as aggressive. Just correcting your post so others don't go on with bad info. Sorry man

    Edit: the coolant temp air temp, engine load vs rpm affect timing.. I meant as a general comment that the crank sensor is the main source.
     
  7. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

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    These use egr solenoids... the solenoid opens and closes to either allow manifold vacuum to the egr diaphragm or block manifold vacuum to the egr diaphragm.

    you must be thinking of gm egr solenoids where the solenoid is mounted directly onto the egr valve.
     
  8. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    You're right, I was mistaken on that solenoid.
    This link better tells about the relationship of the cam sensor, crank sensor and what they do.
    "To determine which cylinder is in its power stroke, your car's computer monitors the rotating position of the camshaft relative to the crankshaft position using a camshaft position (CMP) sensor. It uses this information to adjust the spark timing and the operation of the fuel injectors. Thus, the CMP sensor affects fuel economy, emissions control, and engine efficiency."
    A bad sensor can lock your transmission into one gear...
    Symptoms of a Bad Camshaft Position Sensor
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  9. fasterthanyou

    fasterthanyou Active Member

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    Okay well I'm done trying to push this topic. You're incorrect in saying that these lose power, wont shift and whatnot with no cam sensor (on these motors.)

    Leaving this discussion at that. Have a good one.
     
  10. Pete fender

    Pete fender Pete Fender

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    Why did Ford go through the trouble and expense installing them in every car and truck they make?
    GM?
    Chrysler?
    Fiat?
    All Japanese cars?Just a way to drive the oil pump?
    That last one has my whole shop laughing!