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Single turbo build

Discussion in 'Personal Projects and Builds' started by Spdricer, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Might as well start a thread for this as well since its different from the engine swap
    First ever turbo build
    Excited to have a Frankenstein type set up..

    Stock 3.8 w/ t5

    Things i have so far..
    turbo
    T4 flange
    Maf
    Afr sensor
    Fuel pressure guage

    Things i still need to get...
    E85 compatible injectors
    Wastegate
    Bov
    F150 fuel rail
    100 micron fuel filter
    Fuel regulator
    Steel braided lines
    A/n fittings
    Fuel pump
    Turbo blanket
    V band connections
    Oil pressure guage
    Exhaust gas temperature guage
    Intake temperature guage
    Mechanical boost guage
    Device to datalog


    I figure i would knock them down one by one and use this thread as a checklist and a place to store and collect my thoughts..
     
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  2. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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  3. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Good luck. Lots of work ahead. Keep posting and explaining. Some pretty smart turbo guys with lots of experience here on this forum.
     
  4. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Some initial thoughts. Based on mine and others experiences, it is best and cheapest to make things once rather than have to redo over and over.
    So, some decisions are needed such as:
    1. Street car or trailer car.
    2. Will you have to pass state emissions after the car is up and running?
    3. What are your wheel HP goals? 300? 400? 500? or 600? Depending upon your goals, various systems will have to be setup up to be able to handle the HP.
    4. Do you have access to steel and aluminum welding tools or persons?
    5. Where are you going to locate your turbo? Keep in mind that this is a powerful gyroscope and will break/crack/bend/melt headers if the turbo is not supported by steel braces attached to the motor and or it's accessory brackets. And, be sure to make room for the air filter when locating the turbo. Same with the inlet tubing going from the intercooler to the throttle body.
    6. Are you planning to keep the A/C system? If keeping the A/C system, do you have access to a hydraulic hose repair business?
    7. Are you planning on installing an intercooler? If yes, a 32" horizontal flow 3" core thick intercooler with a 3" inlet and 3" exit works best. And, you need to use 3" inlet tubing from the intercooler exit all the way to the throttle body to prevent air reverberation (backflow air) in the MAF. Suggest you stay away from the BA 5000 MAF as it requires huge scaling in the tune. That MAF is for 1200 hp and higher motors.
    8. Are you planning to use the 99-04 upper intake with 45 degree air intake? BBK used to make a 70mm throttle body.
    9. Consider 13" Cobra front brakes and rotors which will require either 17" rims or larger. The braking force is far superior to the V-6 stock brakes.
    10. You will need a wiring upgrade for the fuel delivery system at minimum plus a larger fuel pump or possibly twin pumps. Fuel delivery is critical and the capacity has to be greater than a system for the V-8s due to more fuel in fewer cylinders.
    11. Depending upon your HP goals, that turbo will blow up most 7.5 rearends. Most try to find an 8.8 rear from a GT. The 99-04 GTs or Mach 1s would be the best.
     
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  5. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Hey man thanks for chiming in! I love your work! I know u have been doing things for a long time and im honored that ur taking the time out to consult me with this build..

    Its better to do it all at once and looking back at it i know i will see it how u do now and i cant wait for that day..

    That being said however im afraid that if i take on anymore load this ship might tip over lol
    Its hard enough to bucket out the water im taking in as it is lol
    Thank god i havent hit a storm lol

    Any way yea man alot ahead of me i know im still just spoon feeding soft food at this point but i plan on seeing this through so well get there together i hope just bare with me as i evolve before ur eyes lol

    1 100% beast mode all day street car
    2 no need to pass emmisions. Miami sea breeze no demand for it at this point
    3 hp goals with this set up (stock) 350 400
    4 i have access to steel welding (mufgler shop) and friends or places im sure i will find also i did some stick welding wen i was a pile driver beads were really good so im planning on diving really deep in that and getting a nice high amp welder
    5im mounting turbo where battery goes i was planning on welding supports to the chassis with softish rubber bushings and flex pipes ball joints and couplings.. the intake will be piped to the fender or the bumper in its own isolation chamber so to speak to seperate from engine bay heat area between intercooler and throttle body is completely open to try to incorporate the same isolation technique there as well..
    6 i dont see where i will need to move any a/c lines from where im standing care to enlighten
    7 i have a procharger single core intercooler i plan to use i just payed like 500 bucks on the ba5000!? lol wat would u suggest instead for my low hp build ill save the sct for later i guess...
    8i hav a 65 but throttle cable is wrong might look into the 70 for sure
    9yea definitely gonna need better brakes kinda thinking hydraboost..
    10 im replacing the whole fuel system didnt think i would need to upgrade the wireing ..i think ur reffering to like a kbboostapump as an option.. can u clarify
    Great point on needing more for less cylinders never looked at it like that before thank you!
    11lol yea if it can hold up for the dyno pulls im not gonna be doing any gear slamming so well see how long i can baby it...
     
  6. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Fuel delivery--'99-04 V-6 Mustangs have a returnLESS fuel system. The fuel pump driver module sends bursts of voltage to the fuel pump. The pump runs until the commanded pressure is met then backs off until the pressure drops again. There is no return line feeding unused fuel back to the fuel tank. In this setup, there is no need for a Return style F-150 fuel rail.

    The stock V-6 fuel lines and rails are close to max out for 350-400 whp goals. However, the stock fuel pump will not cut it. Neither will a Focus fuel pump. You will need twin fuel pumps for sure plus a fuel pump wiring upgrade to 8 gauge wire to the driver module(s) and 10 gauge wires to the pumps. Without wiring upgrade, the stock wires get hot at WOT, the voltage to the pumps drops, and the pressure drops at the fuel rails and injectors. In the process, the motor is denied the fuel it needs to keep cool, the cylinder temps get too hot, and detonation ensues while the hypereutectic pistons melt.

    Another option is to go with a RETURN style fuel system in which the F-150 return style fuel rail (fits the split port heads) could be used. A separate return line to the fuel tank will be required. Fore makes a fuel hat for twin pumps that has supply and return ports in the hat. The return style pumps attach to the fuel hat and fit inside the tank. IMHO this is the best option. http://www.foreinnovations.com/Cobra_fuel_hat_p/55-800.htm

    Have experimented with an external fuel pump and did not like the risk of a rear-end collision and exposed fuel lines. With twin pumps, a wiring upgrade will still be required, but the wire gauge will not have to be as heavy as constantly running pumps need less amperage. 10 gauge supply wire and 12 gauge to the pumps would be adequate.
     
  7. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Yea i wanna do a return style set up that hat looks so ideal how perfect no need for any retro fitting! Fantastic i will be purchasing that next thank you for doing that footwork for me excellent!

    ..u dont really feel a sump or some way to stop sloshing is necessary?
     
  8. Phil II

    Phil II Cone Destroyer Staff Member

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    You CAN use the Ba5000. Its what I used. I also paid for tuning services and mounted it in a custom cai made of aluminum tubing. It may also be overkill.

    I suggest mounting the turbocharger to the engine. Those flexible couplers you wrote of are failures waiting to happen. It's much simpler to keep engine parts locked together so that the difference in relative motion is null. I think you might notice this on most oem and aftermarket setups.

    The stock v6 tank can hold dual pumps. The trick is to not flung the car sideways or pull a lot of lateral acceleration when fuel level is low. Rule of thumb is keep it above 1/4 full during play time.
     
  9. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Lol yea it would be that simple lol.... makes sense to me..

    It will be not hard at all to fabricate a bracket to support the turbo from the engine block i will do it this way instead and only use the flex pipe for the down pipe if i decide to keep my exhaust even though im against it at this point ..i will drive the car with a dump out the side of the bumper until it becomes a problem then i will install the exhaust and watch my gauges and decide then if any horsepower loss or heat rises was worth the less smell and less noise and arguably better asthetics..

    I still have my bbk cai maybe ill look into incorporating that might actually be a pretty good idea can u post a pic of ur maf setup wen u get a chance
     
  10. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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    With the Fore hat fuel delivery system, no need for a separate fuel pump wiring upgrade. The kit comes with a control box and the wiring upgrade. The control box is really a box with relays inside. The wiring in the kit is a 4 or maybe 2 gauge black and red set. Based on your intended location of the turbo, suggest moving the battery to the trunk for more room. You can then Tee off of the battery power wire for the power wire to the Fore relay box. The green W/yellow stripe wire which comes from the CCRM in the passenger fender well is the power wire to the rollover/inertia switch which then switches colors and proceeds to the Fuel Pump Driver Module. The green w/yellow stripe wire will be connected to the Fore relay box as remote #1. Then, you will need either a boost switch or a throttle linkage trigger switch to turn on the second pump after 5 psi of boost or maybe the 7/8 throttle linkage switch.

    From experience, when the key is on, the fuel pump will be running. Found that there are multiple times when the key had to be on but the fuel pumps turned off for tuning or other diagnostic reasons. So, best to cut that green w/yellow stripe wire and wire-in an on/off switch somewhere under the dash. With the Fore hat setup, the fuel pump driver module can be removed along with the associated wiring. HOWEVER, you do need to keep the 18 gauge yellow and black wires in tact. Those two wires are the signal wires that are used for the fuel level sensor that is mounted on the fuel pump hat which is inside the fuel tank. One other point, my kit did NOT come with a fuel level sensor. You may be able to use the one included on your stock Fuel pump. If not, you can order one from Rock Auto by searching for an '03 Cobra fuel tank sensor, $100.
     
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  11. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Wow thanks man... yea i read about u talking about making ur stock level sensor work or the filter because the other one broke maybe it was someone else..
    Yes iv always wanted a fuel pump switch after seeing them in nascar .. ahh growing up in a nascar obsessed family...
    Named me kyle after kyle petty lol go figure...
    ...and they wonder why i have engines all over the place lol

    Anyway yea excellent ill take ur advice on the 100 dollar cobra sensor and yea good tip on t'ing off the battery once its in the trunk i will be doing that as well

    Regarding the wiring info i read u explaining this in another thread as well this exactly how i will do it so i will definently come back to this info wen im ready to cross that bridge and u will be hearing my inquiries if i run into complications lol

    I think the 5 ib boost switch is better than the throttle because i might hit 5 ibs but not be passed 7/8 and could possibly run lean? or should i be looking at it the other way around...

    Edit the other way around: the other way around meaning i should have the throttle switch because if i hav boost switch i can be at low throttle hit 5 pounds and run rich
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  12. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Also say im not gonna be working on the fuel system and i want the key to turn on the pump it would be ok to just leave the switch on wen i turn off the car? because if i wired it like u said the key will cut power... just curious..
     
  13. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Any way i decided im going to use my exaust system after all but i want to have a 4 inch dump on a valve that i will have open at a little less than half throttle

    I have the standard 2.5 exhaust that starts where the headers used to end... well since the headers will now be facing forward i will have plenty room to work with

    I was looking into a 2 to 1 two 2.5" into one 4" collector unfourtunately the only ones i could find all reduced to 3" before they split into two 2.5"

    [​IMG]

    Now Im no mathematician.. but id say that is no good that is the equivalent of two 1.5" so...

    I sent a text to the guy who i bought the t4 flange from on ebay and asked if he was up to the task to weld me a true to its name two 2.5" into one 4" exhaust collector or merge pipe

    That was like 2 hours ago so now we will see wat happens with him

    Other wise my plan is to get a 4 into 1 four 2.5" into one 4" collector then use a common 2 to 1 2.5" merge pipe to split the exhaust into two to meet where my original exhaust begins

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have to admit that its gonna look pretty cool im going to have to get some pics its a shame to have it hidden under the car

    Edit: come to think about it maybe i wont have too. maybe ill start it as soon as it exits the turbo by the belt just because..

    But also it might be beneficial to split early because its easier to snake 2 2.5" past a stock kmember then 1 4"

    Edited typo
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  14. 6 Shooter

    6 Shooter Well-Known Member

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  15. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Sweet nice now i can already have the bends worked out to make it easier on the muffler shop guy which is good because this is a huge job for him compared to the cat backs that he does all day.. it will save me money as well.. im thinking a two 45* instead of those sharp 90*

    [​IMG]

    Forgot to show the y pipe 4" dump before the 2.5" pipes start..
     
  16. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    Actually the one above turned out to be a 2.5 and not the 4" that they put in the title..
    The only true 4" that i can find that has the pipes all connected just need a quick weld is this one..

    [​IMG]

    But i dont feel very confident with this it seems sketchy...

    So can do a two seperate 2.5 y pipe electric cut out exits like this

    [​IMG]

    Or just use 2 of the pypes brand posted above on one power switch.. prolli go this way to have a 2.5 exit behind front tire pointing back at a 45* angle of side of car and slightly at the ground so i clean the streets when im rippin it haha

    Or make a mega phone exit that will actually create a vacuum! With this..

    [​IMG]
    Oh yea baby!
     
  17. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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  18. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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    I got the turbo the flange and now the copper divided gasket but still no hardware does arp make these ..with the temperatures this sees i dont want to make the mistake and buy cheap hardware
     
  19. Phil II

    Phil II Cone Destroyer Staff Member

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    Does not need to be ARP. The right alloy steel will do. The McMaster-Carr catalog is very good.
     
  20. Spdricer

    Spdricer Active Member

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